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Destiny

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TLN – DUST Economic Musings

This topic contains 52 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of x0scarMike x0scarMike 4 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 53 total)
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  • #8992
    Profile photo of CFD_26
    CFD_26
    Moderator

    I know I’m not into dust yet (I swear I’m going to try it soon!!) but I have a question about the tax system and how it would work. Would this be an amount that is automatically deducted from the player or would there be a set amount that the player would have to fork over to TLN in one lump sum. Or option 3, I’m way the fuck out in left field and don’t have a clue what the hell is going on….. I’d like to buy a vowel…. derp.


    #8993
    Profile photo of postmanclark
    postmanclark
    Participant

    CFD, the tax would automatically happen; it wouldn’t have to be managed – just set the percentage and it’s automatic. That wasn’t way out of left field, if it was option 2, we would just keep with the donating system, as it would be too hard to manage it. It would be good to see you on Dust. FYI I was writing a long post, and you posted so I lost all my 200 words – f*** you man! (Note to self, copy text before posting).

    Sparx, apologies for thinking you meant this article – I didn’t mean to insult your intelligence.

    Both ideas were pretty cool, it’s good to think we were looking at the bigger picture earlier. However, the second idea isn’t feasible.

    It is hard enough to recruit in Dust, with over 100 corporations recruiting members – it is hard to recruit anyone; my expect recruitment pace is about 2 members a week. With this level of recruitment, corporations are offering out training for free. There is actually a corp called Dust University, who are run on a similar idea to the one in EVE; who are offering training for free.

    With regards to the first idea, it is fairly similar to my idea (although slightly differently); one of the big differences being that we don’t have that level of activity on a daily basis and also the loadouts cost significantly more than 10K. Both things pretty much even themself out on the ISK making front.

    #8994
    Profile photo of CFD_26
    CFD_26
    Moderator

    CFD, the tax would automatically happen; it wouldn’t have to be managed – just set the percentage and it’s automatic. That wasn’t way out of left field, if it was option 2, we would just keep with the donating system, as it would be too hard to manage it. It would be good to see you on Dust. FYI I was writing a long post, and you posted so I lost all my 200 words – f*** you man! (Note to self, copy text before posting). Sparx, apologies for thinking you meant this article – I didn’t mean to insult your intelligence. Both ideas were pretty cool, it’s good to think we were looking at the bigger picture earlier. However, the second idea isn’t feasible. It is hard enough to recruit in Dust, with over 100 corporations recruiting members – it is hard to recruit anyone; my expect recruitment pace is about 2 members a week. With this level of recruitment, corporations are offering out training for free. There is actually a corp called Dust University, who are run on a similar idea to the one in EVE; who are offering training for free. With regards to the first idea, it is fairly similar to my idea (although slightly differently); one of the big differences being that we don’t have that level of activity on a daily basis and also the loadouts cost significantly more than 10K. Both things pretty much even themself out on the ISK making front.

    Just my two cents again. If we’re having trouble get funds on here, we enforce a small tax. That way no one really notices anyway. Personally, I would prefer to see (or not see depending on how this works) a little bit money or ISK be taken from my character as opposed to trying to give up a large lump sum to help out. Again, I’m not sure how things work with this game, but I would think that if players are playing with TLN and expect TLN to arrange/organize things for them to partake in, and give them equipment, then they should be willing to give up a bit of $$. But, I’m not up to date on these things, so there’s my opinion… take it or leave it!!  😛


    #8995
    Profile photo of SSAGENT022
    SSAGENT022
    Participant

    I’m not sure why people have an issue of Having, say a 5 percent TAX.

    Cause if you think of it, if you make 300,000 ISK for a game, a game you do well, you only lose about 15,000 ISK, thats not a lot, since you could earn that really quick, and when the industry comes up, thats not a big cost if they give you 30 ARs that are worth that amount.

    #8996
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    Ok talk to me about giving free equipment agent once its possibly, its not even in the near future….

    #9006
    Profile photo of Sifar501
    Sifar501
    Participant

    Judging from the numbers you guys have been throwing around, I feel like my meager donations have been basically worthless… But I stand by TLN!


    PSN/Live: Sifar501
    Gamespy: ~>{501}asdfg123786<~/Project_Wildebeast/www.jangosfist.tk
    1100ad: Crator/fightthepower/asdfg123786
    Youtube: crankthatronald/Sifar Halani
    Everything Else: asdfg123786/Sifar Halani
    #9007
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    I don’t have a issue with a tax but I think the cons outweigh the pros at this moment in time….

    #9008
    Profile photo of SSAGENT022
    SSAGENT022
    Participant

    I don’t have a issue with a tax but I think the cons outweigh the pros at this moment in time….

    We can’t even impose a tax yet, its for the future, it will probably be around when open market comes out.

    #9013
    Profile photo of TECH-SARGE
    TECH-SARGE
    Participant

    When the market is opened that means the wallets will be combined, you can trade and manufacture dust things. In that case a 5% tax shouldn’t be a problem. Since our income will increase significantly.

    @OscarMike; I know the moment you hear the word tax you think this is a conspiracy (lol), but you being taxed will mean that TLN LTD as a whole will benefit. Tax goes everyone even the high ranking guys like me. And that money will be used for the clan as a whole i am not going to empty the corp wallet and run, i call that treason. And in times of war as we are in right now you can be shot for such acts.

    Have some faith in me as i tell you that you will get something back for it. Maybe you can tell me what you exactly expect to get from that? I would like to know and i do want an answer so think this through. You’re not gonna be done by just waving this away or telling me that you expect it not to be done. I want a serious answer that you reinforce with arguments.

     

     

     


    #9023
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    I would want more of the community side… Giving out weapons and stuff can get tricky and anger some people because think of it like this. Boomer plays a shitload and his maximum free guns for week is 100 guns or something, so he gets his 100 but he has paid 10 million in taxes because he plays alot. Then I come along who plays alot less and get my 100 guns or something, but i only paid about 1 million in taxes because i suck and don’t play alot. So boomer is getting ripped off. Thats one crappy idea gone.

    So i said i wanted more community to the aspect. So what if we got like a little lotto.  Anyone who wants in pays 10 million (or whatever figure you want). So lets say 10 people payed in. So automatically 50 million goes to TLN bank and other 50 million goes to the two/three people who won lotto. Thats one idea.

    Next I would like frequent officer blogs/taloncast. Nothing to really explain with that.

    Basically we are paying the tax for officer time and effort instead of paying for roads….

    You know what I mean and will shoot more ideas to you when i get them….

    #9024
    Profile photo of TECH-SARGE
    TECH-SARGE
    Participant

    I would want more of the community side… Giving out weapons and stuff can get tricky and anger some people because think of it like this. Boomer plays a shitload and his maximum free guns for week is 100 guns or something, so he gets his 100 but he has paid 10 million in taxes because he plays alot. Then I come along who plays alot less and get my 100 guns or something, but i only paid about 1 million in taxes because i suck and don’t play alot. So boomer is getting ripped off. Thats one crappy idea gone.

    tax is a designated percentage. like 5%, it is for all the same no matter what you make in isk, if you make more isk it will seem more. But relatively it will be the same for all members. And the amounts should be different, you play less than boom so you make less isk then you pay less. This is the way of the world.

    So i said i wanted more community to the aspect. So what if we got like a little lotto.  Anyone who wants in pays 10 million (or whatever figure you want). So lets say 10 people payed in. So automatically 50 million goes to TLN bank and other 50 million goes to the two/three people who won lotto. Thats one idea.

    I like this lotto idea, this is something that we might do even if we do or don’t tax members. Its been done by corporations for years in eve so…..

    Next I would like frequent officer blogs/taloncast. Nothing to really explain with that.

    First what do you mean by officer blogs? Second people need time and shit to talk about. And NO we do not always have shit to talk about as things are same old, same old. On the Taloncast, i understand you want more cause you really like this, but that’s not always possible. Still I think we should try to have one each week even if its a short one to cover this weeks PC battles and how shit is going in battlefield etc. 20-30 min max. If there is a lot to talk about we can always bump the time up to max 45 min.

    Basically we are paying the tax for officer time and effort instead of paying for roads….

    Again you don’t need to pay for an officers time here Oscarmike, we will put in time even if you don’t pay tax. That is not the point here. I do not like this statement, cause you make it seem like we want your money, but i don’t want your isk, i want you too fight. We are not a government, we are here FOR YOU!

    Keep the ideas coming though

     


    #9025
    Profile photo of DjSparx162
    DjSparx162
    Participant

    I would want more of the community side… Giving out weapons and stuff can get tricky and anger some people because think of it like this. Boomer plays a shitload and his maximum free guns for week is 100 guns or something, so he gets his 100 but he has paid 10 million in taxes because he plays alot. Then I come along who plays alot less and get my 100 guns or something, but i only paid about 1 million in taxes because i suck and don’t play alot. So boomer is getting ripped off. Thats one crappy idea gone.

     

    i think you missed the point of Posts original idea with the weapons dealing, if you put in 1 mil, you get 100 guns, if Boomer puts 10 million in he gets a thousand guns. if someone else throws down 100 mil, they get 10,000 guns, its not set on donate more than a million you get 100 guns it goes up with the more you donate.


    #9028
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    Dj that idea is still broken because after you doing the math, you still end up paying more…. Basically this is a government Tech, idk how you see it but i see it like that….. Bullshit you cannot find something to talk about, its so easy…

    #9029
    Profile photo of DjSparx162
    DjSparx162
    Participant

    how so? if we run on a 2 man operation, example me and you, you want 100 laser rifles, in the marketplace they cost around 50K for the one you want each, i sell them to you for 20K each after making them for 10K each, so instead of costing you 5million, it costs you 2million. yet i make a 1 million profit. allowing me to make you 200 rifles for 4million, when it comes to you giving me 5million which would have been for 100 rifles, you’re now getting 250 rifles, 150% more than you would have done. thats not a broken idea, thats a solid and working idea that needs refining obviously but for the most part thats pretty much there.


    #9031
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    If its that cheap, market price will drop to so we save money for a week…. Yea I stick with market…

    #9032
    Profile photo of TECH-SARGE
    TECH-SARGE
    Participant

    Dj that idea is still broken because after you doing the math, you still end up paying more…. Basically this is a government Tech, idk how you see it but i see it like that….. Bullshit you cannot find something to talk about, its so easy…

    If i where a government i would tell you that you are right and then screw you and that is not my style. We will see if it so easy when you do the taloncast my friend, i wish you good luck.


    #9033
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    x0scarMike wrote:
    Dj that idea is still broken because after you doing the math, you still end up paying more…. Basically this is a government Tech, idk how you see it but i see it like that….. Bullshit you cannot find something to talk about, its so easy…

    If i where a government i would tell you that you are right and then screw you and that is not my style. We will see if it so easy when you do the taloncast my friend, i wish you good luck.

    Actually in a Democracy citizens are “supposed” to have equal say so… lick that……

    #9034
    Profile photo of SSAGENT022
    SSAGENT022
    Participant

    TECH-SARGE wrote:

    x0scarMike wrote:
    Dj that idea is still broken because after you doing the math, you still end up paying more…. Basically this is a government Tech, idk how you see it but i see it like that….. Bullshit you cannot find something to talk about, its so easy…

    If i where a government i would tell you that you are right and then screw you and that is not my style. We will see if it so easy when you do the taloncast my friend, i wish you good luck.

    Actually in a Democracy citizens are “supposed” to have equal say so… lick that……

    Anyone ever tell you Corps run by Democracy?
    Besides, we aren’t A Democracy.  We just listen to our folks.

    #9036
    Profile photo of DjSparx162
    DjSparx162
    Participant

    TECH-SARGE wrote:

    x0scarMike wrote:
    Dj that idea is still broken because after you doing the math, you still end up paying more…. Basically this is a government Tech, idk how you see it but i see it like that….. Bullshit you cannot find something to talk about, its so easy…

    If i where a government i would tell you that you are right and then screw you and that is not my style. We will see if it so easy when you do the taloncast my friend, i wish you good luck.

    Actually in a Democracy citizens are “supposed” to have equal say so… lick that……

     

    never studied politics but a democracy is ran by by elected officials who speak on behalf of the general populace.


    #9037
    Profile photo of TECH-SARGE
    TECH-SARGE
    Participant

    bottom line is this in the end we will talk about this as an officer core and whatever decision is taken everybody will have to live with it.


    #9041
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    I think we should have a TLN Dust townhall meeting.

    #9042
    Profile photo of DjSparx162
    DjSparx162
    Participant

    Oscar, as other people have said, you come up with every negative to every idea put out, yet don’t put any ideas into the pot to see what people think about them, you just shoot other ideas down. put some of your own ideas in. then people might pay more attention to your criticisms


    #9043
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    I just put some up there a little bit ago,

    I would want more of the community side… Giving out weapons and stuff can get tricky and anger some people because think of it like this. Boomer plays a shitload and his maximum free guns for week is 100 guns or something, so he gets his 100 but he has paid 10 million in taxes because he plays alot. Then I come along who plays alot less and get my 100 guns or something, but i only paid about 1 million in taxes because i suck and don’t play alot. So boomer is getting ripped off. Thats one crappy idea gone.

    So i said i wanted more community to the aspect. So what if we got like a little lotto.  Anyone who wants in pays 10 million (or whatever figure you want). So lets say 10 people payed in. So automatically 50 million goes to TLN bank and other 50 million goes to the two/three people who won lotto. Thats one idea.

    Next I would like frequent officer blogs/taloncast. Nothing to really explain with that.

    Basically we are paying the tax for officer time and effort instead of paying for roads….

    You know what I mean and will shoot more ideas to you when i get them….

     

    If we get a townhall meeting, I will bring everything i can think of….

    #9046
    Profile photo of SSAGENT022
    SSAGENT022
    Participant

    So what if we got like a little lotto. Anyone who wants in pays 10 million (or whatever figure you want). So lets say 10 people payed in. So automatically 50 million goes to TLN bank and other 50 million goes to the two/three people who won lotto. Thats one idea.

    Please tell me when you know of a successful lotto system in AMERICA.

    Ohh wait a min, you can’t think of one.  SO, what if only 10 people put in the money? And they only gave 1 mil. thats 10 mil, and not much for the corp.

    Not to mention, when we make the guns, people are getting their money back, its just when people pay their tax, the people who pay more, get their share first. Boomer isn’t getting ripped off, cause he is still paying the same amount of tax you are.  Its like millionaires paying the same amount of tax as middle class people.  In fact, the richer are paying MORE than the middle class in AMOUNT. So no one is really getting ripped off, since we all pay the same.  Nothing unfair about that. .  Not to mention the CORP will start to re-imburse your funds when you participate in a PC battle.

    Ohh, and when the CORP has the ability to TAX, you are getting a higher rate than the rest of us. FYI!

    #9047
    Profile photo of x0scarMike
    x0scarMike
    Member

    What do you mean lotto’s are not successful… Someone wins a big chunk of money and the government is making money as well (good chunk)…. So tell me how that is not good?

    btw sparx its the officers job to come up with ideas and implement new ideas…. Its members job to give feedback and i am giving feedback so….. Be creative…. I don’t mind a tax but if that is all TLN is relying on other then PC then we will screw ourselves…..

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